'NON-NEGOTIABLE'

'NON-NEGOTIABLE'

New York Post
Interview with President Bush


March 6, 2005 -- THE PRESIDENT: Freedom is on the march, and that's good for the world and it's good for America. That's what I believe. You know, the elections in Afghanistan, the elections in Iraq, the elections for the Palestinian people, the elections in Ukraine, street demonstrations in Beirut demanding the removal of Syrian troops and intelligence services — things are happening. And the United States of America is glad to be a part of it.

Q: When you were standing at Ground Zero, did you imagine that . . . progress was going to come this quickly and this profoundly?

President Bush: When I was standing at Ground Zero, I was so overwhelmed by the moment that my vision was focused on preventing this from happening again and bringing to justice those who did us in, did the buildings in. It took me a while to fully understand . . . out of this evil will come some good.

It was hard to envision the tremendous change that would take place as a result of democracies taking hold in a place like Afghanistan. Our first mission was to rout out the Taliban. [Then I] began to really fully understand the possibilities . . . when I met [Afghanistan's then-interim President Mohammed] Karzai, for example, it was absolutely convincing to me that a democracy would take hold in Afghanistan . . . .

I believe that individuals can help shape the course of events. Leadership matters; courage matters. And I was beginning to get a sense of that courage when I met these people who love freedom . . . . And the possibilities became real, were confirmed by the first Afghan elections.

[But] no, at Ground Zero then, it was very emotional. It was hard to be clear-visioned on September the 14th.

Q: But touching on Ground Zero, it was an emotional moment — an important moment . . . people were still in deep shock and — the words of your leadership. Because of that moment and how important it was for your presidency and important it was for a lot of your constituents, [do] you still take a keen focus on the redevelopment of that site?



President Bush: New York is a fabulous place. It is a resilient, brave city, and I'm confident that what will be built there will be a fitting tribute to freedom . . .

[I was] standing up there, and [I said] "I hear you and the world will hear us" — it was just one of those things that just popped right out. It wasn't something somebody handed me [on] a nice little note; And maybe — that's probably why it had the impact it had, because it wasn't viewed as scripted, because it wasn't.

Q: Mr. President, [when New Yorkers criticize] United States foreign policy, particularly with regard to Iraq and the Middle East, I tend to remember your words, that many of us will not live to see the result of this, if I can paraphrase.

President Bush: Yes.

Q: [Has] the rapidity of events in that part of the world changed your view, that maybe there will be tangible results before our time is over?

President Bush: That's an interesting question. I think it's very important for me to not get completely swept up with the rapidity of things right now and recognize that it does take time to change culture and habit.

One of the problems we face in this world is that the expectation of things happening quickly is large. You know, it hasn't been a year since we passed sovereignty in Iraq, and that's not very long.

Certain countries can't move as fast as we'd like. But nevertheless, it is easier to imagine now that maybe things will happen quicker than I thought. But I'm not going to allow myself to get too enthusiastic, because we're talking about substantive change after years of public foreign policy that really didn't — was kind of: We'll let the tyrant stand, in hopes that we achieve a short-term objective.

So I think — I'm going to be — I'm excited about the events, but I recognize I need to be patient. And it's very important for the president to have a sense of realism when it comes to what's possible and not, so that you don't create expectations amongst the citizens of our country, as well as the world.

What's interesting right now, the subject that is most on my mind, is getting Syria out of Lebanon. And I had a very good visit with Jacques Chirac on that subject, because he agrees.

And I don't mean just [some of ] the troops out of Lebanon, I mean all of them out of Lebanon, particularly the secret service — the intelligence services, which are embedded in the Lebanese government. Lebanon is a democracy, and we need more democracies in the Middle East. We need more beacons in order to lay the foundation for substantive change for generations to come.

And so I think we've got a very good opportunity to speak with one voice — America, France and others — to make it clear to Mr. Assad: This is non-negotiable; it is time to get out.

Q: He's not in a position to resist for any long period of time, right? You effectively isolated him.

President Bush: I think we've got a good chance to achieve that objective, and to make sure that the May elections are fair. I don't think you can have fair elections with Syrian troops there.

The reason I bring that up is, part of the question you asked, things are happening. That happened a lot quicker than you and I thought. But it's a moment for the world to then say, wait a minute, we are for democracies, here's a democracy, let's make sure that democracy works.

Q: Mr. President, you know, freedom being on the march, the one area where it may have gone backward is Russia. And I'd be interested to know, after your trip to Europe — when you shook Mr. Putin's hand and looked him in the eyes, was he still a man you feel you can trust?

President Bush: I think the relationship is good, person-to-person. In other words, he tells me what's on his mind, I tell him what's on my mind. And that's an important relationship to have. Because when I spoke publicly there in Bratislava, I did explain to the press corps there that Mr. Putin and I were alone for quite a period of time — at his request — and I expressed my country's love for democracy, and all aspects of it, including a free press, and free religion, and the ability of people to congregate, and that it is important for our friends to embrace those very same principles.

I've had a relationship where, when he tells me something I believe him. He's been straightforward with me, and I'm very straightforward with him. Obviously, I've expressed concerns about some of the decisions he has made, and it's very important that our friends around the world continue to say to Vladimir, your interests lie West, Russia is a European country, and as a European country there are certain values we share.

Now, Putin did say two interesting things that I thought were important. [He said] we're a democracy, we're not going back; and there are not two types of democracies — which I thought were revealing comments.

Russia is a really important country. It spans eight time zones; it touches a lot of borders of other countries. I've told Vladimir Putin that I believe it's in his country's interest that he be surrounded by democracies, which are peaceful, and that it's best that all of us work together to help fledgling democracies succeed. And he took it aboard. And I'm going to see him again in May when I go overseas for the 60th anniversary of the end of World War II.

Q: We've all been sort of in awe of the Secretary of State, watching her travel around the world.

President Bush: Yes.

Q: Do you think she'd be a good President?

President Bush: Look, if I catch her thinking that way [laughter] I'm going to remind her I picked her to be the Secretary of State because I'm confident that she can do a good job. Listen, Condi Rice is a remarkable woman. She is bright, talented, firm and clearly sees where the world is going. And she's going to do a very good job.

She and I are very close. We were close during four interesting years, and we spent a lot of time together. And she knows how I think, and I know how she thinks. Every problem in the world comes to this desk. It's an interesting thing, isn't it? Which means the relationship between Condi and me and between Hadley and Condi — Steve is the National Security Adviser — and Rumsfeld and me, key players in the national security team, have got to be close and there's got to be an understanding, there's got to be frank discussion.

You know, Condi could march right in here and say, you know, hey, Mr. President, you have to think this way, why are you thinking this. She'll lay her opinions flat out. She is a confident person, and that's what I want. I want somebody to come in here and say, you know, have you thought about this, or, you can't do it that way, in my judgment. However, she's also the kind of person, when I make up my mind, it's, yes, sir, Mr. President, I'll put it in place.